Taking Bagels to the next level

[stevemiller]

Hi folks,

 I'm new to this forum (and breadmaking in general). I've been working to "perfect" my Bagels. I had tried several recipes before getting the BBA. I've made Peter's recipe about 6 times.

 While I realize that ugly bread can taste good , I would really like to get a product that rivals professional quality. I am interested in any comments that might help.  My benchmark for good professional bagels is Brueggers in Boston.

 Some comments on my experience with the BBA recipe:

  - I use Bob's Red Mill Unbleached Flour (described as "high gluten" and "good for bread machines"), weigh all ingredients and knead in a mixer. I use 10 cups of water with 1/2 t. of Baking Soda for the boil (as well as Malt syrup). I use Fleischmann's Instant Yeast.  I usually cook on baking sheets, my recent try was on a pizza stone.
 
  - My biggest complaint is flat(ish) bagels. Mark Witt suggested watching for over-proofing. That has helped, as has using the "rope" shaping method rather than the "thumb" method. My last batch went to the fridge as soon as they started to float. I use plastic containers for the retard rise (see picture below) and I think that they trap some heat that causes more proofing to happen in the fridge (more than a baking sheet in a plastic bag). I continue to work on this.

  - To try and avoid "over proofing", I only retarded my latest batch for 6 hours (not overnight).  I usually do overnight. I've tried 2 days, but that made the problem worse.

  - Browning, crust and baking time is my second conundrum... I find I need to leave these bagels in the oven a long time (18-20 minutes) and they are still slightly pale. The recipe doesn't specify cook time, but it implies a shorter time. I have also begun keeping the oven at 500 rather than turning down. With the latest batch (pics below), I used a pizza stone to try and get more heat on the crust. Still, when cooled, the bagels have a soft, leathery crust. I am just hoping to get a little snap into the crust.  Toasting after helps them out.  I'm getting a new Oven thermometer today and will check my oven.

  - The "crumb" on these bagels is slightly coarse, my impression of the best bagels is that they have a very smooth texture.  Not a show stopper, just an observation. I think if I figure out the proofing/rise questions, this will follow.

 Any other Bagel fanatics out there trying to perfect their techniques?

 TIA!
Steve

Here are some pictures from my most recent batch
These bagels proofed in the fridge for about 6 hours. They had about doubled in size in the fridge and were puffy and soft.  These also seem to have developed "stretch marks" which is a first...


Boiling always seems to deflate my bagels. At this point I was expecting "flat tire" bagels


They perked up a bit in the oven (cooked on a pizza stone) but still somewhat flatish. I shaped them larger than usual because I was cooking in smaller batches (due to stone size). These flattened out a bit overnight... the next day they weren't as round.

[nolan]

Do you have a good oven thermometer to check to see what the temperature of your oven really is?

5 minutes at 500 and 5-6 at 450 is all mine ever take, and I've made the BBA recipe quite a few times (roughly 2-3 times a month during cooler weather for the last 2 years.)

[AnnieMacD]

How long have you been letting the oven heat up?  May I suggest and hour?  The stone absorbs a lot of heat and the oven takes longer to come up to temperature.  Is the colour of the bagel bottoms darker than the tops?

Annie

[stevemiller]

 I agree with your guess (and the first responder) that the oven is not getting fully up to temp. It did preheat for a while (like an hour). I've got an good oven thermometer on order at Amazon and when it get's here I can  confirm.

 I still wonder about the "deflated" look of the boiled bagels.... is this normal? I would expect the boiling to get the yeasts to puff up somewhat.

 Thanks for your note

Steve

[AnnieMacD]

Steve, I think it's OK for them to wrinkle a bit during the boiling phase but they should then smooth out again in the oven.  The real trick is not to let them overproof as they are going to get a double whammy of heat.  I also like to get them in the oven as quickly as possible.  I'll be interested to see if  your oven is off because I usually have the opposite problem to you in that they tend towards over-browning.

Let us know how it goes.

Annie

[marklwitt]

These seem over-proofed. When the bagels are overproofed they collapse in the boiling water.  Try boilig them sooner, when they are about two thirds this size.  The unboiled bagles should not feel like they will collapse at your touch.  They will expand in the boiling water, much like bread does on a baking stone with oven spring.

[crstice]

I too have had occasional bagel collapses during the boiling stage. The last time it happened I realized it was in part due to having too many bagels crowded into the pot at the same time. One of the bagels was getting crushed by the other two as they rocked in the water. I used a slotted spoon to hold the others back and that seemed to help. This time when I made bagels, I made them slightly smaller (just 4 oz. each) and that seemed to take care of the problem.